Craig Mazin says he knows what you’re thinking: “The Chernobyl and The last of us The guy wrote a broad comedy mystery about talking farm animals? “Yes.” Well, Mazen’s comedic roots run deep. And we also have a crowd.
Sheep detectives, Mazin’s adaptation of Leonie Swan’s novel Three full bagsit’s been a passion project of his for the better part of two decades. And now that the results are finally in theaters — the film includes a stellar cast in front of the camera (Hugh Jackman, Emma Thompson, Hong Chow) and the voice of the sheep (Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Brett Goldstein, and Regina Hall) — it feels a little nostalgic. “I feel like this is where I finally figured it out,” he says.
During the last episode of Hollywood Reporter Podcast I have a ring (Spotify, Amazon Music, Apple), Mazin talked about drawing inspiration from them lusciousscript manipulation, his love of porn efficiency and why he thinks the upcoming third season of The last of us He will ask his viewers to re-examine their previous footage on the show.
You wrote the original Sheep investigations The scenario 10 years ago. How much does the project change in a decade? Are there points where you think, “Why am I still working on this?”
This, oddly enough, took longer. I first got the book from our producer, Lindsay Doran, 19 years ago. It took nine years to clear the rights. Then I set it up in the studio and wrote the script about 10 years ago. This scenario is basically the movie. I’ve done a little bit of reviewing, not much. But the studio was saying, “This isn’t just a purely goofy movie. There seems to be a lot going on here. We’re not really sure we want to be in this business.”
Nearly a decade later, someone did.
Courtenay Valenti, who is now running [Amazon] MGM always loved it, and always thought there was something valuable to the idea of a family movie that looked like a silly talking animal movie and turned out to be much more poignant. She bought it from the other studio and I went from just sitting there to releasing it with the most amazing cast I think I’ll ever be associated with.
Craig Mazin who wrote this was still very well known for writing comedy. with Chernobyl and The last of usit really centered around a man of death and murder.
Why should I go to extremes? In fact, this is the thing that came between them. I started moving from one genre to another. It’s funny now when you talk to people where they say, “I don’t understand how Chernobyl and The last of us A man can do this.” You know, the first thing I did 30 years ago was a children’s film[[Rocket man]At Disney. I think I wrote in all genres. Obviously there are a lot of things I write that don’t have my name on them. But this is probably the movie that is closest and dearest to my heart, because I feel like this is the movie where I finally figured it out.
You have a reputation of being a really strong scenario doctor. There are many films you have worked on that do not have your name on them. Can you demystify that a little bit for me, because so much of your career has been done in the dark?
You know there have been projects over time where a studio has gone through 30 different writers and no one, especially studios, wants to see “written” and then 30 names. It looks bad. It’s not good for us either. There’s a reason to limit the credits. Most of the time when I do these kind of jobs, it’s either to help something get the green light… or it gets the green light and then a movie star or a producer says, ‘Let’s bring in someone to help with the first act or fix this character or do something.’
From what I’ve read and heard, you wanted to spread as wide a net as possible in this film. How do you do it?
It has always been our goal lusciouswhich is what I would call the last realistic talking animal movie that was special — and it wasn’t just talking animals, you know. This is what we aimed to do. And I remember luscious It was very surprising. I saw a luscious In theaters and I was in my twenties.
We’ve all done it. It’s kind of wild how big it is luscious He was.
We’ve all seen a lusciousBecause we heard it was special. When they talk about, “Who is this movie for? What is the audience for this movie?” I think the audience for luscious It is humans. The audience we were aiming for was humans. It’s interesting that Craig, Death and Despair, wrote this. But do you remember who wrote it? luscious? George Miller. Mad Max George Miller. Sometimes, you gotta go to that guy to watch a movie about talking animals.
The book I adapted this from, Three full bagshas such a great title. I understand why it wasn’t chosen for the film, but can you talk to me about discussing the naming?
It’s always Three full bags for me. Every text I wrote, said the title page Three full bags. When it comes time for the film to actually be released into the world, these titles are frequently changed by the studios. Marketing, specifically, has a lot to comment on in this regard. And I don’t mind. On the one hand, it’s a very silly title. On the other hand, it tells you exactly what the movie is about – which is helpful!
What are some tropes you see in movies and TV that you would like to stop?
I love pausing on the whole idea of metaphors. (He laughs.) Here’s a metaphor: vampires. There’s a point like, “Oh my God, how many things have to do with vampires?” then Sinners They come, and they’re vampires, but it’s not about vampires. I’m doing a show about zombies. It’s not about zombies. As long as there’s something honest underneath it all, I’m open to anything. Like, I love John Wick. What John Wick What he does beautifully is what I call porn efficiency. We just love watching people who are great at what they do. And they do it in ways that others haven’t.
What are some other good examples of porn efficiency?
complete Jason Bourne The film series is trust porn. It’s probably the best screenplay I’ve ever seen on screen the unforgiven. Throughout the film, people keep talking about how Clint Eastwood’s character, William Mooney, was the most incredible killer the West had ever seen. He’s just a broken-down old man who doesn’t look good at anything, gets kicked, gets feverish, and almost dies. Then, finally, he goes to town and does it. This is its own kind of release.
I famously told David Benioff and Dan Weiss, upon seeing the original, unaired pilot for game of thronesthat they have a “big problem”. And everyone realizes that the version we got is almost a completely different episode of television. When has someone said something like this to you in your career?
I constantly tell myself that. I have this thing where I want to run toward bad news. I think it’s because I got out of comedy. And comedy is brutal because the audience will tell you silently that you have a big problem. You become like firefighters running into burning buildings instead of celebrating what you have. In drama, you could theoretically sit in the audience and say, “I made this beautiful work of art and it’s expressive. And if these people don’t understand it, it’s their fault, it’s not my fault.” In comedy, no one cares. You have to embrace the crucible of feedback.
I’m paraphrasing, but you said something to the effect that critics never get comedies. Why do you think there is a bigger gap?
Well, first of all, the critics aren’t giving the comedy its due. This is the hardest thing to do. Best Picture at the Oscars should only be a comedy for me. Understandably, the best picture of the year goes to something very serious. This is it. Writing is much more difficult Scary movie 3 Than it is to write Chernobyl. I know this through Personal experience. (He laughs.) I also think people get into film criticism because of their love of comedy.
You are catering to two different audiences The last of us: People who have this deep connection with the video game and others, like me, who watched the first episode and assumed, “Oh, I’m going to sign up to watch a five-season series with my friends, Bella Ramsay and Pedro Pascal.” This is not what they get. Does your awareness of these two camps influence the writing and execution of a season like the upcoming season, which focuses on Kaitlyn Dever?
Well, it’s not as if Season 2 wasn’t a departure. We knew what we were doing there, and what I love about this story is that you’re deprived of your heroes and your villains. What you are forced to come to terms with is that the people you care about and encourage are not good all the time. It’s a matter of perspective and narrative. It’s a very powerful thing to have a story that gives you a hero and makes your side good. This is fundamental to most religions, and it is fundamental to most politics now. It creates tribalism. It’s an “us versus them” game, and it’s happening very quickly. What I liked about the game’s story, which is in line with what I follow in the show, is that it’s not that simple.
The answer to conflict, tribalism, and the isolation of one group from another is empathy. But showing empathy is difficult, especially when you’re talking about empathizing with someone who has personally hurt you, taken something from you, or made you sad. There is a reasonable argument that you should not reach out to someone who has hurt you or someone you love. Easier said than done. So this is about exploring that. What I do know is that we have Kaitlyn Dever. She’s the type of actor you find yourself identifying with and rooting for almost immediately.
Speaking of tribalism, a very funny trivia fact about you is that your roommate your first year in college was Ted Cruz. I’m just bringing this up because when those catastrophic storms were happening in Texas and he left for Cancun, one of the headlines was “Ted Cruz invited his college roommate to a trip to Mexico and blamed it on his daughters.” My immediate reaction was: “Maybe I don’t know Craig Mazin as well as I thought I did…”
It wasn’t me! A different man. I know who that was. I’m so glad you said “first year roommate,” as in… I got hired. I didn’t choose this guy. I just got a little form in the mail that said, “Your roommate will be Rafael Edward Cruz. I was so excited until I met him. And then I wasn’t. Hey, there’s a guy who unites everyone. Everyone hates him — Republicans and Democrats. Everyone agrees he stinks.”
I was pretty lucky with my first-year assignment, but I think having to live with randos eventually makes you a higher-functioning adult.
Because I’m old, I love the phrase “character building.” It builds character. You can survive in these things. I survived Ted Cruz for a year. If I can do that, I can do anything.
