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Throughout his years of development, Connor Haynes worried that no one would notice his passion project. Then, last summer, test shots of stars Paul Anthony Kelly as John F. Kennedy Jr. and Sarah Pidgeon as Caroline Bisset became a lightning rod on Instagram, and he realized attention wouldn’t be an issue.
During its first six episodes, FX’s love story It has captivated and divided viewers — with debates over historical accuracy, the treatment some still-living characters received, and costume stills. As a first-time showrunner who was enamored with Bessette and Kennedy long before Ryan Murphy announced plans for their TV treatment, he appears to still be processing the huge role his show played at the water cooler. “I put it on my bucket list and assumed I wouldn’t be able to write it until later in my career,” says Hines. “When it was announced that Ryan was doing this new anthology, I pursued the job like I’ve never pursued anything in my life.”
Speaking during the latest episode of Hollywood Reporter Podcast I have a ring (Spotify, Amazon Music, Apple), which was recorded before Daryl Hannah went public with her issues with her portrayal, and Hines talks about the long process of bringing together two incredibly private lives and why we’re all still so adorable by America’s most famous family.
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How did this become magic for you?
I was obsessed The crown And the fact that we have no equivalent in the United States, except for the Kennedy family – in terms of a dynasty known throughout the world. I went down the rabbit hole, starting with Joe Kennedy, and working my way through the generations. For a while I thought I would write something that goes back to the beginning of the family. There is no shortage of stories, trials and tribulations. But when I got to John and Caroline’s generation, specifically their story, I remember writing to my boss at the time. I couldn’t believe someone hadn’t done a limited series about the two. I put it on my wish list, thinking I wouldn’t be able to write it until later in my career. When it was announced that Ryan Murphy was doing this new anthology, I got on with the mission. I have never followed anything in my life.
I imagine people haven’t done that before because there’s a certain amount of fear in tackling such a sensitive topic…
Yes, but I was struck by the disconnect between the narrative surrounding their marriage at the time — especially Caroline — and the woman her friends described as an incredibly fun, loving, and energetic woman. Of course, you see countless pictures of her looking completely isolated, afraid, or withdrawn. I just thought, “Oh, I want to know who the woman is that no one gets to see, and who that woman was before she met JFK Jr.” She had a storied career at Calvin Klein, from folding jackets at the mall in Boston to becoming one of his most trusted executive advisors.
What was your awareness of them growing up?
I grew up right outside of New York City. My father moved every day, so he always brought home a copy of the book New York Post. I have all these memories of seeing their pictures everywhere. I remember specifically, on page six, they always put the names of famous people in bold. It was constantly their names and pictures. And I come from two large Irish Catholic families outside of Boston, so I was familiar with the Kennedy family. My grandmother had a shrine to the president and Jackie…
Oh, Kennedy mania is very real in Irish American families.
One hundred percent. He was our first Catholic president, which means a lot to this community. That meant a lot to my grandparents. [Jackie] She was just a rock star in her own right. I don’t think people really give her enough credit for the role she played in Camelot. She penned this novel specifically as a favor to her husband. She was a lot smarter than I think people realized. People think of Jackie Kennedy and they think of grace, poise, and style. But, and I say this in a positive way, she was a very calculated and intelligent person. Political activist.
Much has been made of your decision not to interview anyone in the family, which operates under this somewhat ridiculous assumption that any of them will talk to you.
correct. In what world would they want to be like: “Yes, let’s sit down and talk to Kiki!” The family was clearly apprehensive about the offer, which I understand. But it’s not like I was screening their calls. I think it was understood from the beginning that there would be no cooperation between us. This is what’s best for everyone involved. You should be as objective as possible when you tell a story. I know myself so well that if I had started developing personal relationships with family members, it would have clouded the way I wrote the show.
This family still looms large in the American psyche, and not just because one of its members is currently involved in decisions with which many of us disagree. There is a reference to RFK Jr. In one episode, and it’s very accurate. But was there any temptation to have more fun with it?
We are really dealing with a sensitive topic as it is. I had little interest in inviting further controversy or debate. I thought this was something we should stay away from. Plus, I wasn’t really distracted from the subject of the show. Anything surrounding it would create headlines that I certainly didn’t want. We try to celebrate different family members.
The majority of this show is scenes between the two of them, John and Caroline, alone. Talk to me about the process behind the artistic liberties you take. These are scenarios in which we do not know what was said. What barriers did you put in place?
Basically, you do as much research as humanly possible. She sets a timeline for each episode, and each episode has a significant event – whether it’s a wedding or an engagement. You can gather as much information as you can about those time periods, and what their friends and family were saying about the state of their marriage. The media caught a lot of flack, but the moments of love between them, and the respect and admiration they had for each other, didn’t make the news. Our mission was to recreate that. You just had to have an understanding based on everything you read about where they were in their journey emotionally, where Caroline was on the journey with her fame and fame, where John was with his career, with George, with his family. Take in all the variables that were surrounding them, and you gain a sense of how they would feel about themselves, and thus toward each other. After that, though, you’ll have the creative freedom and extrapolate the best you can.
But there was this huge fight, mostly over clothes, when that test shot came out last summer.
I don’t know what you’re talking about. (He laughs.) I haven’t heard about this. This is the first time I’ve heard of test shots.
So, what happened?
It was very preliminary. We were still playing around with the aesthetics of these characters. It wasn’t really anything more than that. Once they were released, I don’t think we expected everyone to feel as strongly as they did about the look. More specifically, I think we’re just getting an idea of how somewhat protective nerds are with both. I’ve been living with this symptom for four years. I didn’t think anyone would care about it until it came out, so that’s the best case scenario. To have the internet create this huge dialogue surrounding their aesthetic even before we started filming and the photographers showed up the first week, I was kind of like, “Oh my God, I can’t believe how much people care about these two.” If anything, it gave me hope that there would be an audience waiting for us when the show started.
I was shocked at how huge Caroline Bessette Kennedy’s fan base specifically is. There are Instagram accounts dedicated to her with nearly half a million followers. Were you aware of this when you decided that would be your entry point?
I knew there was still this ever-present presence in the fashion world. It’s very unique. There weren’t many people who became as famous as her They had no interest in fame. We’re so used to people taking advantage of fame and monetizing fame. It was the opposite of that. She wouldn’t let you in. No interviews were conducted. She has not appeared on the cover of any magazine. And you didn’t benefit from that. If anything, I married him out of spite. It only adds to the mystery of this woman that, on top of her being classically elegant, we never knew her.
Despite all of that, she remains this very popular person.
But one of the most interesting parts of telling this story is that it memorializes her as a one-dimensional fashion icon. There was nothing but a giant life behind this person, an amazing career, friendships, relationships, and a city that she loved and made her own. It was so much more than that. I appreciate the fact that her legacy has lived on, but she should be remembered for much longer.
This is a rare Ryan Murphy production as he has no writing or directing credit. Knowing that, and knowing that this was something he was very interested in, what did that tell you about how he conceived of this project?
He was very influential from the beginning. He really responded to it, and our visions for the show really aligned. When I presented the first two scripts to him, he was very supportive and encouraging. I believe he is loyal to his audience and that our ability to entertain them is a privilege that should not be wasted. He has his finger on the pulse because he is well aware that when people are watching a show, at any moment they might turn on the channel or pick up their phone. We have a responsibility to keep people engaged. And when it comes to the style and aesthetic of the show, that’s just Ryan. He’s an incredibly visual person. I was very focused on the emotional beats of the show. But when we meet and talk, he sees everything very clearly in a way that I don’t see. In this way, we complemented each other. Once I gave him the pages, he knew exactly how he wanted everything to look.
This is a high-profile project that introduces you, in many ways, as a writer. It’s a great moment for your lead character, who are by no means household names for that matter. How were they prepared for all the attention that would be on them? In my car today, I passed five billboards, I counted, bearing her pictures.
This is definitely not me setting them up. (He laughs.) I have no idea what this must feel like [for them]. This is more than Ryan’s wheelhouse: preparing people for stardom. But I can’t tell you how many days I spent on set watching them and thinking, “Oh, they have no idea how much this is going to change their lives.” People will want to watch the two for a very long time. I’ve never had that experience — working with someone who’s your friends and then thinking, “Oh, these people are going to be stars.” But they take everything in stride. All they wanted was for people to feel like they had done justice to John and Carolyn, because they knew the expectations were too high. I think people are responding positively.
Paul was dumped like at the eleventh hour, right?
I was literally asking Uber drivers and people on the street if they wanted to read to John. In my opinion, if we don’t find that person, this offer that I’ve spent three years working on will never come to fruition. We weren’t just looking for someone who looked like John, which is enough as it is. You have to find someone who looks like they’re vacationing on Cape Cod, who launches a magazine, who can command a room and hold a VIP session. And their mother, Jackie Kennedy. There were a lot of variables that an actor had to possess besides looking like himself. But when he got into the room and people saw him in person, it was like, “Oh, this is what we had in mind.”
You were originally an actor before you started writing. What do you consider yourself to be at this moment?
I grew up in theatre. She studied at the New York Conservatory of Music after college. Performing on stage has always been my first love. But, you know, you realize very quickly how difficult it is to show up to auditions for student films — for which you’re not paid — with domineering 18-year-old directors from Columbia and NYU. I was thinking to myself, “Oh, I don’t know if this would be for me.” Even the things I was holding back I didn’t want anyone to see. When I started writing, I flipped a switch. It’s as if I can play every character in the scenario in my head.
Do you know what’s next for you?
I do, but I’m afraid to say it out loud in case it doesn’t happen. But it’s a different kind. I don’t know if I could write another love story now, because I loved them so much and this project. I feel like I’m going through a breakup.
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love story New episodes release every Thursday at 6pm PT/9pm ET on FX/Hulu, and stream on Hulu.
