SAG-AFTRA is making more moves into podcasting as podcast videos gain traction on streaming devices and more.
newly, house davidson show, Netflix’s first original podcast made headlines after signing the SAG-AFTRA streaming deal. The move could chart a course as more podcasts appear on streaming devices, and as SAG-AFTRA ramps up its efforts in the space, while trying to define what constitutes a podcast versus a streaming show.
It’s difficult to quantify how much coverage the guild already has in the podcast space, given the large number of shows, according to Sue Ann Morrow, national director of strategic initiatives for contracts and podcasts at SAG-AFTRA, but she said the guild already has a “significant density” in scripted drama podcasts and expects more podcasts to cover interviews as well as narrative podcasts going forward.
“We are rapidly expanding our coverage,” Morrow said. Hollywood Reporter after a panel discussion at On Air Fest in Brooklyn on Tuesday.
SAG-AFTRA currently has two podcast contracts: micropod, Which covers podcast earnings of less than $10,000 per season and is for SAG-AFTRA members who dip their toes in the medium, and the Independent Podcast Agreement for podcast earnings of more than $10,000 per season. Both were created in 2023.
Moro did not comment on the specific contract Pete Davidson ShawHe fell. Most projects fall under the independent podcast agreement, but companies can also negotiate their own specific agreements, she said. These agreements and amendments to the independent contract are made with input from the guild’s Podcast Committee.
“Our podcast agreements are very flexible,” Morrow said. “It’s really relevant to the space. The department is really used to working with all different types and sizes of podcasts. But sometimes companies will come to us and want to negotiate their own agreement, just because of their specific needs and type of project, and so we’re open to that. Most projects fall under our standalone podcast agreement.”
“When an audio-visual podcast from a player like Netflix comes to us, if we cover it on YouTube, we’ll cover it on Netflix,” she added.
One challenge, however, is the changing definition of what a podcast is, especially with the rise of video podcasts on Netflix and elsewhere. Morrow said there are some internal metrics the union uses in the decision (which she did not disclose), but they are also listening to the industry.
“It’s something we’re constantly talking about internally. How are we going to define podcasting in six weeks, six months, six years? So we’re kind of trying to reflect on the industry, and what the industry is telling us. If the industry says we think this is podcasting, then we’ll look at that and say, ‘Okay, what does that mean now?’ What is a podcast now? “And try to cover it in a way that makes sense to the producers of it and the performers in it,” Morrow said.
“To some extent, it doesn’t matter to us, because if a project comes to us and it doesn’t sound like a podcast, we have other ways to cover that work,” she added.
Industry members have one definition, which is to see podcasts as “According to Tom Webster, a partner in the Podcast Business Association, it appears profitable. But the general public increasingly views it as a “chatware”, which also has an impact on the medium.
While podcast contracts are cheaper for companies, Morrow said that an actor on a video podcast contract doesn’t necessarily get a pay cut compared to a daytime TV show contract (although that contract does require residuals). The pay rate depends on the budget of the project, the company or producers behind it, and the SAG-AFTRA members involved.
“It’s not our intention to offer a lower-level contract. We want to make sure that everyone is respected and supported across the industry. So we shouldn’t feel like this is the cheapest contract,” Morrow said.
Contract coverage applies to the host or hosts, and also applies to guests who have the ability to waive applicable fees to their appearances. Morrow points out that it’s up to the guest to waive the fee, and that fees don’t always make sense for an editorial appearance. The general intent is to provide other protections to the contract.
“There’s no minimum guest rate on the podcast, but we expect our performers and our members to be covered privately, when they’re on the podcast, when they’re guests as well. We expect them to get a contract,” Morrow said.
Under a model independent podcast agreement starting in 2024, minimum wage rates are negotiable. Benefit contributions are required at 20 percent of a performer’s total compensation, and a maximum of $15,000 per episode or $100,000 per season per performer. Specific podcast agreements with podcast companies may have minimum prices and terms that vary.
Otherwise, the Independent Podcast Agreement provides eligibility for health insurance and retirement benefits from SAG-AFTRA, and prohibits the use of generative AI related to a performer’s voice, likeness, and more. The Independent Podcast Agreement also provides a path toward SAG-AFTRA membership, if the podcaster is not already a member.
The move toward video podcasting comes with the cancellation of more daytime television programming, which was heavily syndicated, in part due to the growing popularity of podcasting, as well as the cheaper economics. .
WGA East has also had inroads in podcasting, having consolidated writers at streaming companies including The Ringer, Pushkin Industries, Pineapple Street Studios, Spotify Studios, iHeartMedia, and Cooked Media. Morrow added that SAG-AFTRA has focused only on organizing hosts and performers, but he hopes more jobs will be covered in this area.
Podcasts created by broadcast stations or through audiobook divisions are also covered within SAG-AFTRA, albeit under different agreements.
As for how she pitches on adding podcasts to streaming services, Morrow said she’s not sure yet whether or not it will remain strong there.
“I think it’s going to be interesting to see what happens in the coming months. I think this is a very new development, and we’re certainly watching it closely. But I think it’s hard to say whether or not people will want to watch the podcast on those platforms,” Morrow said.
